You can always check the respective company’s website to find the nearest supplier. That is incorrect. The difference in these two thinsets: “There is more portland cement in LATICRETE 272 and the sand in the. Was night and day difference. Thin-set is a specialized mortar that has been designed to be applied as a relatively thin (3/32" or less) layer. Comparable to a mid-range unmodified. Now however I am doing another bathroom and the tile shop I use doesn’t carry it any more. Provided your shower floor was waterproof, it’ll remain waterproof. Kerabond: This is considered Mapei’s premium unmodified thinset. If it has A118.1 AND more numbers after that (with no mention of admix) then it is a MODIFIED thinset. It is difficult to find and has limited availability. So my wife ended up leveling our kitchen floor down to the Plywood which is great. Those mortars have more sand in them so they do not shrink as much. Unless you personally know someone in the chemistry department of the manufacturing plant there is no accurate way to tell. Thank you for the quick response Dusty, but I am having trouble tracking some down near by, and the shipping was about as high as the bag on Amazon :/. This is in contrast to 'medium-bed' (up to 1/2" thick) and traditional 'mud bed' installations (1" or more). I do a water test tomorrow…. According to the TCNA, dry-set mortar is Portland cement mixed with sand and additives that impart water-retentivity, and it’s used as a bond coat for setting tile. Schluter's recommendation is to use unmodified thinset mortar when installing Kerdi over most shower substrates. Your email address will not be published. I have the concrete floor, then red guard over that, then the thin set mortor, then the tile on top. It is, and will continue to be, my preferred manufacturer for nearly every tile and stone setting material needed. If you used unmodified over plywood it may fail. 50. The Lowe’s rep said that’s because modified thin set won’t properly adhere to the slab. Use as a medium-bed or thin-set mortar for installing tile and select natural stone on floors and walls. Another home, another delima. I found a local flooring store that can order in the 317… I’ll just use the down time to dry fit and cut a million little hex tiles. At an NTCA / Schluter workshop the statement was made that the preferred method of installation over ditra is the use of an unmodified thinset. As I stated, this list is biased. (Water retentivity is the ability of the thinset to resist drying out rapidly when it comes in contact with porous tile.) It’s difficult to find and purchase. I’m just super cool like that. Over the ditra, under the tile, yes, kerabond is correct. At only $6 a bag, I thought it couldn’t be right! The products are Schluter SET® unmodified thin-set mortar, Schluter ALL-SET® modified thin-set mortar, and … Unmodified thinset consists simply of cement, finely graded sand and water retention agents. It’ll work in a pinch if needed, but ensure full cure time before the next installation stage. I used your advice a few years ago on a master bath remodel, and used DitraSet. I no longer do this for my modified thinsets, but it was a hard habit to kick. To receive the lifetime warranty you have to use their thinset. porcelain tile also very expensive but going over a concrete slab. 22,7 kg. If you are using the kerdi-band you do not need any of the liquid anywhere. All thinsets, as well as any tile installation product, will have a specific ANSI (American National Standards Institute) number on the bag. It may work, and it may not work. Thinset mortar is a tile setting material that provides bonding for tiles. I’m installing a curbless shower with a schluter tray. Everything I’m reading makes it sound like my results will be disastrous and my tile is going to crack. If you don’t find it you’ll just think ‘Well, FloorElf told me I wouldn’t find it…’. All Set does work, but the lft mortars work better. With the expanded use of modified thinsets, the unmodified version had nearly gone by the wayside with everyone except us hard-headed setters who bought unmodified thinsets and added liquid admixes to them – to create modified thinsets. I’m not a fan either. For example, a 3/8\" notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch thick coating after the tiles are … I checked amazon but at $40+ a bag that didn’t work. Hey Roger- but while I found your #1 pick I also found I answer them all. Unmodified thinset is a blend of portland cement that's mixed with sand (silica), and water retention additives, usually lime. Regular unmodified thinset is very basic in its composition, consisting of only the fine sand, a water retention agent, and a portion of cement. Warranty. All modified thinsets meet the criteria set forth for unmodified thinsets as well, that’s why the A118.1 is on there. See – win-win for me. Just like modified thinsets, there are different levels or grades of unmodified thinsets. If you have two tiles next to each other and one has more mortar beneath it, that one will shrink more, causing the tiles to no longer be even once cured. That’s the only issue I have with them, and that’s everything to do with me being a stubborn old bastard rather than a negative for the mortars. It is also highly recommended for floors. It appears to be unmodified thinset based on the labeling. Hi! Schluter thin set is awesome. You might hear people say “mortar” instead of thinset, which isn’t 100% correct, but close enough. It was like sticking cardboard to dirt. It is a mixture of sand, cement, and chemicals and is available in white or grey. I submerged the floor under water for 2 weeks hoping it would loosen up, but it has not. It worked great of course. Selecting the proper polymer-modified thin-set mortar for tile installation will add years of life to your new flooring. Anyway, have you used the new Schluter mortars? I use 317 for almost all of my unmodified thinset needs. Non-Modified Mortars CUSTOM's non-modified mortars deliver the basic qualities necessary for specialized tile installations and for use with specific membranes that are not compatible with polymer-modified or fortified thin-set mortars. Arched niche, floating bench, and other ‘highlights’. Level Set® 500 HF Self-Leveling Underlayment, TEC® Enables Solid Subfloors to Support Fitness Club’s Design Concept, Best Practice Tips for Successful High Flow SLU Installations, Use Build My Submittal to collect all documents into one convenient file to support substitution requests. It’s right up there with the keraset and kerabond. Ditra-Set: This is the best product with which to set anything over kerdi or ditra – it was specifically manufactured for that purpose. Nothing in any of the product literature mentions “premium.” I had to get it so thin, saying it would hold the trowel lines was a stretch. Yes, you can use 317 for your granite slab over kerdi. Keraflor: The ‘economy’ level unmodified from Mapei. It is mixed with either water or latex admixture for installing ceramic tile and stone using the thin-set method of installation. Menards normally stocks Mapei. I’m a little late to this, but even after 20 hours it would have been a chore to redo it. A 100 sq ft tile over slab I’d like to redo floor tile over tile. Mix with water - no additive required. Already have the ditra but as it’s a dyi I cant afford time or money for cracking tiles or the product to fail on me. Unmodified is a blend of Portland cement, sand, and water retention agents that the installer would mix with water. Don’t let this confuse you. (I answer them in the order received, I don’t see this one until I answer the last). That post actually started out as this post, I tend to get sidetracked by beer my dog. If you are lucky enough to find it you’ll feel ecstatic, like the luckiest person alive! Aahh, ‘lifetime’ warranty. Mapei uncoupling medium and thinset mortar is easily available at Lowe’s but I can source whatever u want. It’s mixed with water before it’s ready to be spread out on … * Summer formula available on the West Coast only. It is up to you whether to take that chance or not. For use with uncoupling membranes. These polymers increase the thinset’s strength and overall performance. This type of cement is designed to adhere well in a thin layer - typically not greater than 3/16th thick. Color/Finish Family. Availability is normally the biggest factor in choosing an unmodified mortar. The modified thinset mortar, on the other hand, does include polymers that are mixed into the dry mixture. I will be using a 1/2″ square trowel on account of the size of the slab, but the 317 doesn’t give coverage for 1/2″ square trowels. I guess the idea is it holds a thicker trowel notch better? Beyond those three, I have no idea what you may have around you. Schluter SET® is smooth and creamy, as well as easy to handle and spread. More cement, more sticky, more stable. Sorry. With ditra over wood it needs modified between the wood and ditra. Does the Schluter all set work for large format tiles? Masterblend, however, is not one of them in my opinion. That is nearly identical to the 317. Description A premium floor and wall dry-set mortar with outstanding bond strength. The issue will be the normal expansion and contraction of the plywood breaking the crystals in the mix that allow that bond. Gray. It is not required for one, single large slab. I’m one of them. Just those three components qualify it as an unmodified thinset. I can’t guarantee a failure – it may be just fine. I just order mine off of Amazon if my supplier is out it is a little more expensive but I feel confident in it. Full-Set Plus: Tec’s other unmodified. Shop MAPEI 50 lbs Grey Powder-Dry Thin-set Mortar at Lowe's Canada online store. Schluter Set White 50 lbs Bag UNMODIFIED Thin-SET MORTAR which was cheaper. To make things clear for you: the term “thinset” describes a specific type of mortar (mostly unmodified) that is used for gluing tiles to walls (like shower wall tiles, for example). Can I use the Laticrete 317 to set a 3/4″ thick granite slab over Kerdi membrane? I originally planned to use ditra and the instructions said to use unmodfied over slab and modified over subfloor to adhere to the membrane. It offers premium quality and economy, covering 10% to 20% more area than other thin-sets. Really. 43 Acrylic Latex Additive; 44 High Solids Latex Additive; Thin-Set Mortars. Yay. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Modified has polymers which allow the mix to retain water, which causes the crystals to be thicker and stronger. Xtra Flexac™ Acrylic Latex Additive is a premium, flexible, acrylic mortar additive that can be used in place of water when mixing TEC brand unmodified thin set mortars. There is negligible difference in these thinsets unless an admix is added to make them modified. It has now been drying for a few days. Since you will be looking for one of the more uncommon products keep in mind that just because you have a supplier near you does not mean you’ll find that particular product there. Nearly any mapei modified will work well, though. That is simply a long way to say the same thing, it may or may not work. It’s a good sack of powder if you have a flood and need a makeshift levy. The problem is that a LOT of people do not have that available anywhere near them – including myself. I knew nothing of the premium levels. This type of thinset mortar is … Is this the case? Unmodified thin-set mortar. They cannot legally misstate the ANSI numbers. For most thinsets (as far as I can tell – ancient guarded secret and all…) a powder called ‘hydrated lime’ is used. Or wonderboard directly to studs with kerdi on top should do the trick? The reemergence (I know – doesn’t even look like a word) of unmodified thinsets came about in November of 2001. It is also highly recommended for floors. We have been doing a lot of reading and research on what products to use below and on top of the Ditra but we are just confused. I usually get 75-90 minutes max and that’s at highest level of water for tile setting. I trimmed an edge of the existing wall membrane held by the cheap thinset and it came right off even falling off in sections. It is the same lime used by brick masons in order to retain water in the cement mix for a longer period of time, thus making the cured product stronger. Available in traditional and summer formulas*. Any idea where this might fit in your ranking above? We levelled out the floor and let it dry for two days, then layed the new Ditra. Fuller Construction Products, Inc. Use Over Exterior Grade Plywood. Conforms with LEED v4 low emitting interiors. If I want it I have to drive to Denver, I’m not doing that. A lower quality yet still reliable option is Tec’s mid range unmodified Full-Set Plus. Wonderboard directly to the studs with kerdi over it – no plastic. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Standard Thin-Set Mortar offers economy with good bond strength for most tile projects and is recommended for floor installations. The said they read both of the bags I got and thought that was the correct thinset. Water is then added to the blend to create the final mortar. It’s only been there for maybe 20 hr at this point. Masterblend states that it meets all three – with the addition of admix (liquid latex). Your flood test will tell you everything you need to know. Full Set Plus ® Unmodified Thin-Set Mortar is a high strength, quick grab, unmodified formulation, ideal for wall installations of non-porous or semi-porous tile. Also, can you please recommend a thinset to apply on top of the Ditra for use with a porcelain tile. I’ll use it since it’s what I have. I went to Lowes and the associate sold me the Mapi Kerabond T thinset fill in the pockets of missing thinset from the plywood and to lay the new Ditra to the floor. That is what I was afraid of! Any reputable tile contractor will tell you not to use this for anything – ever. That’s it. Lowes will either stock Laticrete or Mapei. It is sag-resistant and ideal for setting tile on both horizontal and vertical surfaces. 317 Mortar must be fortified with 333 Super Flexible Additive or 3701 Mortar Admix for exterior use, porcelain, mosaic, glass and stone tiles, and heavy traffic areas. Find Mortar at lowest price guarantee. An unmodified thinset mortar means that it does not contain polymer within the dry mix. It depends on the amount of expansion and contraction in your floor. Unmodified thinset is also known as dry set mortar. I’m therefore wondering if Laticrete doesn’t consider 317 to be appropriate for large format tile. It’s a 14″ x 44″ piece that I’m using as a shower bench top. Thinset mortar is a blend of cement, very finely graded sand, and a water retention compound that allows the cement to properly hydrate. Custom Building Products Custom Blend 50 lbs. The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. My local Lowes carries something from MAPEI called “Uncoupling Membrane 50-lb Gray Powder Thinset/Medium Bed Mortar”. Mapei eco Prim Grip? I would check the bond after the thinset cures. This type of thin-set mortar is also referred to as dry-set mortar. It’s not ideal but it works if it’s the only available. If you have availability to mapei the ultraflex 2 is perfect. Over prim-grip you want a modified thinset to bond ditra, not unmodified. I recently started a kerdi application and used the only unmodified thinset I could find at lowes. This has continued to this day with even seasoned professionals questioning if unmodified should be used, and if so – why and which unmodified to use. like everyone I don’t have a lot of money and this is a big project for me 350 square feet kitchen/laudry/hall and pantry. Floor Tile. Unmodified thinset mortars, on the other hand, depend on the presence of moisture to gain strength, and therefore they are well-suited for these curing conditions. I knew something was wrong but couldn’t figure out what since the bag of mortar said it met the standard. Full Set Plus® Unmodified Thin-Set Mortar is a high strength, quick grab, unmodified formulation, ideal for wall installations of non-porous or semi-porous tile. Yes, you are correct. Several years ago we installed the Ditra in our bathroom then tiled it. This is a new house construction and won’t be in it for several months. Schluter SET® is a premium, unmodified thin-set mortar for use as a bond coat within tile assemblies that is optimized for use with Schluter® membranes and boards. Installation Guide PDF. The tiles are large format. So that’s how unmodified thinsets are ‘grouped’ or graded – the ratio of those three items in the mix. I’m guessing this is an old post based on the number of comments. This list WILL be a bit biased. Thanks for the very helpful website. That mapei product is a good one. Pot life of Schluter All Set is very poor in my experience. Schluter Set White 50 lbs Bag UNMODIFIED Thin-SET MORTAR. Pound(s) Unit of Measure Quantity. Click the plus sign to add a PDF to My Submittal. If it helps, it’s sometimes difficult for us as well. Unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. No, it will not be a disaster and no you do not need to rip it up. Bathroom subfloor is plywood using ditra and then the walls I’m using wonderboard covered with kerdi membrane. Prim-grip is a fabulous product). No, you do not need the liquid membrane as well. CA Prop 65 PDF. Most professionals don’t have ready access to it, let alone regular homeowners. Your site has been such a go to resource throughout my first attempt at renovating a bathroom… Thank you! So just plan on not finding this. So, all thin-sets are mortars but not all mortars are thin-sets. I put down porcelain tile in a shower floor using thin set mortor in a bucket that did not have polymers in it by mistake (Recommended by Home Depot employee). I’ve never seen nor heard of that, but I will tell you it definitely is not 317 in a different package – that’s BS. One person went so far to say this is the same 317 in a different package but I thought I’d ask another expert! Large format tile mortar exists to prevent excessive shrinking while curing. I was slightly misguided/misunderstood after speaking to someone at Lowe’s when asking about modified vs unmodified thin set to install tile. Thanks for the feedback. I would not recommend using it for any shower applications or any regularly used flooring surface over ditra. Thank you so much, appreciated! A good unmodified thinset for nearly anything requiring one. As far as the modified, ultraflex 2 is really good. It is mixed with either water or latex admixture for installing ceramic tile and stone using the thin-set method of installation. We are now updating the tile so we’ve taken all the old tile and Ditra out. Very sticky, good bonding. We had some exposed plywood and some thinset left on the floor. Thinset (also called thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) is an adhesive mortar made of cement, fine sand and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. One last thing – before anyone asks: adding more portland cement to a particular product may or may not make it better. this is how they are rated by their respective manufacturers. Compliant with (CDPH) Standard Method v1.2 VOC Emissions. That said typed, I do realize that other companies exist. And being that it’s a Schluter product and I’m doing it all Schluter-style, I’ll assume it is good stuff. For increased performance, use Custom Building Products' Thin-Set Admix Concentrate or Thin-Set Mortar Admix … Ditra first after Prim Grip? I’ve been waiting years to do this project and want to make sure I’ve got the right materials.Please take a moment to give your suggestion. I love the ALLSET Because you can use it anywhere. So in the groups above it breaks down like this: So there you have it. Need the thickness at 2 doorways. This Custom Building Products FlexBond 50 This Custom Building Products FlexBond 50 lbs. The ‘.1’ at the end determines the unmodified version. Thanks Roger! Fortified Thin-Set Mortar is a premium-quality, polymer-modified mortar with exceptional flexibility and bond strength. If it does fail the ditra will become unbonded to the plywood and you will end up with a floating tile floor (not bonded to the substrate, but the tile will be bonded to the ditra (locked into it, more accurately). Polymer-Modified Thin-Set Mortars Polymer-modified thin-set mortar options are among the most popular for setting tile. Adding more cement to masterblend, for instance, will not make it comparable to kerabond. Keraset: This is Mapei’s mid-range unmodified. 1-year limited. *This is by no means any type of intentional slander or slam against Custom building products! Series Name. Home Depot will only (currently) carry Custom products. The unmodified WILL bond to the plywood. Your email address will not be published. 317 Mortar must be fortified with 333 Super Flexible Additive or 3701 Mortar Admix for exterior use, porcelain, mosaic, glass and stone tiles, and heavy traffic areas. Rapid Setting. The tile and Ditra came out with some hard work and power tools. AcrylBond® AMA Additive is a flexible, acrylic mortar additive that can be used in place of water when mixing TEC brand unmodified thin set mortars to help meet ANSI A118.4 and A118.11 specifications. 317 Mortar is a bagged cementitious powder. Why would use anything else it voids the warranty? Good for setting Saltillo and other similar clay pavers. I decided to use the Schluter systems, and have been using the Laticrete 317 (as you advised!) Yes (requires additive) Use Over Concrete. Specifications. The uncoupling mortar will work just fine with that tile over both the kerdi and the ditra. I do not consider this a viable product with which to install tile or stone over Schluter products. He suggested either that or their ALL-SET, but that was twice the cost. It’s always best to call the customer service line and ask them directly where you can buy the product you want. You mentioned “it’s a last call” so i guess you are not saying “absolutely not tear it all down.” Right? Now that you know that, let’s group them in order according to how they are graded and perform. Flip a coin. They are ideal for mosaic, small or medium-sized tile installations on walls, floors or countertops. For instance, if it says on the bag that the product meets ANSI standards A118.1, A118.4 and A188.11 then it is a modified thinset. But again, it may be a better idea to go for the premium. Sorry, missed that part. This mortar can be used to install most tile over cementitious surfaces. Can be mixed with MAPEI's Polymer Additive (instead of water) for enhanced performance, and for setting a wider range of tile and stone over additional substrates I did go with the schluter thinset bought it online at just over 20 a bag. In my previous post about thinsets I explained what modified thinsets are and how they came about. The only really good thing I can say about it – It is an unmodified thinset.*. Not what I’m used to more than anything else. I hope this helps clear up a little bit of confusion about these products and helps you determine which would be appropriate or best for your project. Best to find one of the other two. Laticrete 272 is considered the premium (best) – then Laticrete 317. Uncoupling Mat Mortar: This is Custom’s premium unmodified mortar made specifically for Custom’s spiderweb mat and other ditra-like products. Between the ditra and tile always requires unmodified. My local tile shops were out of the 317 and have suggested a product from Texrite called “Floor Mix” (it does meet the standards, but like some of the others on this list, I’m afraid it may not be worth using!). Now here’s the issue: I decided to forgoe the ditra membrane. An easy-to-use high performance, single component, universal polymer-modified thin-set mortar. But, recommended? I can’t easily find Laticrete or the “Keraxxx” products nearby. If, however, you are limited to normal big box stores, you can find some of the common products there. Even with shipping the cost was less than I had planned on. If you have tips for cutting small mosaics (I’m planning now to use my wet saw) I’m all ears. Yep! I think it was worse then the keraflor you mention. It adds water resistance and improves shock absorption. it was just a $8 bag of mapei unmodified thinset. Should we just pull it off and start over or leave it and hope it gets a good bond? It is difficult to find and has limited availability. Next her and the neighbor who has done a diy bathroom decided to lay down the ditra with the Unmodified thinset. No easy access to Laticrete where I live now, so Kerabond? Offers good working time to apply and adjust tiles.

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